Samantha Hawley: It was all going so well. At a concert in Sydney, Tenacious D, an ageing American comedy rock band, had the crowd enthralled. But a poor taste joke about the assassination attempt on Donald Trump has ended their tour and seen the band's duo, Jack Black and Kyle Gass, put their "creative plans on hold". Today we'll chat with our very own producer, Sam Dunn, who was at the concert, and to comedian and co-host of the Chaser Report podcast, Dom Knight, about when comedy goes wrong. I'm Sam Hawley on Gadigal land in Sydney. This is ABC News Daily.
Samantha Hawley: Sam, of course, normally you are not behind the microphone because you are the whiz of the podcast when it comes to audio production. But we had to speak to you today because, of course, you were at the Tenacious D concert because you are a huge fan of Tenacious D.
Sam Dunn: Yes, it feels a little odd being on this side of the microphone, but as the resident Tenacious D fan, I thought I had to speak. I've been a fan since the 90s when they had their old HBO show. And they haven't been to Australia in over a decade. So I was lining up for tickets online, but lining up for tickets straight away as soon as they came out. It was very exciting.
Samantha Hawley: And they're really popular, aren't they? And Jack Black, he's hilarious, let's face it.
Sam Dunn: Yeah, he's the best.
Samantha Hawley: So you were there on this night. There's this huge crowd. They're having a fantastic time. Just explain to me what happens. This moment that Kyle Gass, he makes this comment. What leads up to that?
Sam Dunn: Yeah, so it's a fantastic night. The guys know how to put on a very, very good show. The crowd sort of knew beforehand that it was Kyle Gass's birthday. So every now and then throughout the show, these happy birthday songs would come up and down. And so there was sort of an assumption that at some stage Kyle's birthday would be acknowledged in some way. And then about halfway into the concert, a character called The Metal, he's sort of a Iron Man type character, and he stomps out carrying a birthday cake. And so Jack Black leads the crowd in singing happy birthday for Kyle. And we all sing along. And then as we finish, he says to Kyle, would you like to make a wish?
Jack Black: Make a wish
Sam Dunn: And Kyle blows out the candles and says a little timidly.
Kyle Gass: Don't miss Trump next time.
Sam Dunn: Don't miss Trump next time. Which is followed by, you know, laughter. And it's sort of an off-the-cuff joke and nobody really pays too much attention to it because within seconds they're onto the next joke in the next song.
Samantha Hawley: Right. So the crowd laughs, but they don't take too much notice of it.
Sam Dunn: Yeah. Well, Tenacious D are sort of, if you're a Tenacious D fan, you've probably come to expect a little shock in their humour. So nobody, I think, in the audience thought it was that extreme for the Tenacious D show. There wasn't really that sense that it was that shocking of a moment at that time. It wasn't until the next day that I think the gravity of, or the weight of that moment sunk in when you see it on Twitter and Instagram and suddenly it's everywhere. It really sunk in that, you know, it probably wasn't the right time or the right moment for that joke.
Dom Knight: I'm Dom Knight, co-founder of The Chaser and co-host of our daily comedy podcast, The Chaser Report.
Samantha Hawley: Dom, you know comedy and you do this every day, but wow, this has blown up into a really big deal, hasn't it? These comments by Kyle Gass, they've had far-reaching implications.
Dom Knight: I must say I'm not surprised that a comment like that got an extreme reaction because this is what tends to happen with comedy these days. If people make a joke on a controversial subject, the phrase is viewed not in the context of the live show when it was being performed in an audience of fans, but it gets looked at in isolation on websites, on social media, and people are appalled about the thing in isolation. And Tenacious D cancelling their entire tour and potentially putting the band on hold is obviously a pretty extreme response, but it also follows the playbook for what happens when people react badly to a joke. And this is something that The Chaser's been through, that a lot of comedians have been through, is what happens when some of the content that you publish in this sense, even though it seems like an offhand comment that I'm sure he now regrets, and based on Kyle Gass' social media, he absolutely regrets, this is what you do. You batten down the hatches, you stop what you're doing, you take a break and you allow time to pass. And that tends to be the way that the heat gets taken out of these situations.
Samantha Hawley: I gather it's a split-second decision, that joke, isn't it? It's you've just made it and then you think, whoops, I shouldn't have said that.
Dom Knight: Well, it is a high-wire act, doing live comedy in particular, audience interaction, something that was unexpected, whether it was a brain explosion or whatever it was. I will say, though, Sam, we need to be honest about the way that comedy works, and that is that people do like edgy jokes. Not everybody does. But if you look at social media, go back to minutes, really, after the terrible incident that happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, that shocked so many of us, social media was full of jokes like Kyle Gass'. They were everywhere. No one was calling for them to be banned. People do like making these sorts of jokes. Some people do anyway, at a time of heightened sensitivity, at a time of tragedy. It's the way that some people enjoy being on social media. And while the majority may not enjoy or appreciate that, there is a small subculture that really enjoys these moments.
Samantha Hawley: Mm. Well, Senator Ralph Babet from the United Australia Party, he demanded that the banned members be deported. Well, they're probably already gone, so I don't know that that's necessary. And, you know, as you mentioned social media, there's been so much said on social media since this comment was made. There's a lot of anger out there, isn't there?
Dom Knight: And I wouldn't at all be surprised if some of the people who are angry with Tenacious D, have threatened violence against them. And this stuff can happen. People can have these extreme reactions. In America, what was said would be protected First Amendment speech. That rule doesn't apply in Australia, where we have less free speech than they do in America. Incitements to violence, though, are really on the edge anywhere, anytime. So I can see why the joke's got the reaction that it has.
Samantha Hawley: Mm. Well, Australia's ambassador to the United States, Kevin Rudd, he's been rather vocal on this. He had some pretty strong words.
Kevin Rudd: It makes me feel sick. As someone would joke about violence, it just makes me feel physically ill. I mean, people might think it's a bit of funny ha-ha at a concert to run off at the mouth about this stuff. It's not. It's about physical life. It's about the threats to physical life.
Samantha Hawley: But he also said that Kyle Gass and Jack Black should go and get real jobs.
Kevin Rudd: These people should just grow up and find a decent job.
Samantha Hawley: Which I don't think would go down that well, Dom, among artists around the world.
Dom Knight: Well, I think they have a real job, but we've got to remember the commercial context of all this as well. If you think about what Jack Black's real job arguably is, he's an actor. He goes in movies like The Super Mario Movie that was a huge box office smash internationally. Now, he doesn't want half of his audience refusing to go to his next movie where he plays the lizard king Bowser, because his band mate has made a joke that a lot of people found off-colour. But also in the interest of Tenacious D in the long term, a lot of fans are disappointed. I saw on social media today a lot of fans very sad that the tour's been cancelled. But this is the kind of thing you do if you want to preserve your project in the long term as well.
Samantha Hawley: And, Dom, it also comes at a time, of course, when there's been this huge shift in American politics, doesn't it? Because of this assassination attempt against Donald Trump, so much has changed. So do comedians and all of us, politicians and everyday people, really need to think more carefully about what we say and when we say it? Because Donald Trump almost lost his life, didn't he, from an assassination?
Dom Knight: He did. Joe Biden has mentioned that his use of the phrase, I think it was bullseye, in relation to Donald Trump, was inappropriate. And in hindsight, that does seem sensible. But it's also worth noting that Donald Trump himself has used incendiary language at public events for many, many years. And in fact, some of the journalists who've attended Trump rallies have really feared for their physical safety after some of the things that he's said on stage. So the notion that we should all be careful when we speak in public is one that this reminds us of. But we do need to have open debate, we do need to have comedy, and we do need to have people making fiery speeches, or the world will be very bland and boring if no comedian's ever made topical jokes. But whenever you open your mouth and make a topical joke, you have to be careful.
Samantha Hawley: I'm interested to know, because you do this for a living, you host a comedy news podcast, The Chaser Report, which I love. And as you say, comedy is such an important part of our lives. But how do you weigh up when a joke is too inappropriate or it's too offensive to make? Because I gather there's a pretty fine line.
Dom Knight: There is an extremely fine line, and it's really hard to do well. I think my colleague from The Chaser, Julian Morrow, now RN broadcaster, gave a really great discussion of this in the Olle Lecture he gave years ago after one of The Chaser's controversies, looking at what he termed second-hand outrage. And you've got to remember above all who your audience is and what they might want and what they might think. No joke is going to work for every audience. And a joke examined in isolation, played back on talkback radio or accepted in a newspaper might look far more beyond the pale than it felt in the heat of the moment. But this is the high-wire act that we sign up for if we make topical comedy. You're always one glib comment away from causing your career considerable damage. And some comedians do get death threats, and we've had some experience with that back in the day as well at The Chaser. So when you go into topical comedy, when you go into edgy comedy, and it's true that if you are on the edge, you often get bigger laughs, you often get to make more of a name for yourself. It's often the kind of comedy that I enjoy. But there is a high-wire act there. And some jokes are best left in the writers' room. Some jokes are best left not said on stage at a public event.
Samantha Hawley: So Dom, what's the lesson from this then? Because we can see just how tense politically things are in the United States. In fact, it's pretty scary to watch it. And these sort of comments, they may be made halfway across the world, but gosh, they travel fast, don't they?
Dom Knight: Well, this is the thing. Within an instant, a comment made on stage in Sydney can be world news. Look, Kyle Gass is part of an incredibly famous comedy band. Walking onto a stage, he knew or should have known that things that he said could be picked up on in that way. I imagine he just wasn't thinking for a second about the implications of what he was saying at this heated time. A lot of people have called for calm, for speech to be more measured, for us to take the temperature out of public debate in the aftermath of the terrible shooting of Donald Trump, of a presidential candidate. That's sensible, but it also applies to our reaction, Sam. Yes, you might not like a joke, but what are the consequences of that? Do you not listen to Tenacious D? Do you not buy tickets to their concerts in future? I would argue that's where it should end. If we want to have a robust marketplace of ideas, if we want to have comedy, the sanction for a joke that you don't like shouldn't be threatening comedians. I don't think necessarily it should be punishing comedians, other than by unsubscribing from them on social media or not supporting their work. But having said that, I think in this case, Kyle knows that he made a mistake, both in terms of taste and in terms of his own commercial self-interest. The tour is cancelled, and who knows when the band will even be back.
Samantha Hawley: Dom Knight is co-founder of The Chaser and co-host of the Daily News comedy podcast, The Chaser Report. Sam Dunn was at the Tenacious D concert. This episode was produced by Oscar Coleman, audio production by no other than Sam Dunn. Our supervising producer is David Coady. And my colleague Matt Bevan has just released a new episode of If You're Listening looking at the conspiracy theories around the assassination attempt on Trump and the history of conspiracies in the United States. I'm Sam Hawley. Thanks for listening.
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2024-07-17 16:00:00Z
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